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    Artifact - How I, a proud Nyx voter, felt reading poll results

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    Artifact - How I, a proud Nyx voter, felt reading poll results

    		Link to Artifact - The Dota Card Game

    How I, a proud Nyx voter, felt reading poll results

    Posted: 05 May 2020 06:34 PM PDT

    Kanna

    Posted: 05 May 2020 02:29 PM PDT

    I feel like you're overcomplicating the 2.0 items a little bit

    Posted: 05 May 2020 01:39 PM PDT

    Dear Artifact team,

    Of everything you shown so far, this is my least favorite (I REALLY liked all the previous ones). It's clear that you're trying to simplify the game, but the new item shop seems to swim against this tide, as it became much more complex and unintuitive than before.

    Shop 1.0:

    • Spend gold on random items by the end of the round
    • Optionally hold current item for the next round

    Shop 2.0:

    • Spend gold on random items by the end of the round
      • Item pool can be upgraded for increased amount/quality
    • Optionally upgrade
      • Upgrading gets cheaper every round
      • Upgrading cost resets after purchasing
    • Optionally reroll
      • Get a free reroll on upgrade
    • Optionally invest
    • Get free Blink Scroll when towers are HALF DESTROYED (this is... random... not intuitive at all)

    Don't get me wrong, I like complexity, but most players don't. I think this needs to be simplified, at least a little bit.

    ​

    My suggestions:

    1) If you want to keep it more like 1.0, just add Invest and Reroll and it should be fine.

    2) If you want to insist on the 2.0 version:

    • Get rid of the upgrade cost changing, keep it with fixed
      • if you feel that you really need it, start giving +Xg gold after each round (where X = round nº)
    • No reroll on upgrade
    • Instead of adding items to the pool, you could have separate slots for each tier, opened by upgrading. Or maybe two slots dedicated to the current tier, and one for each previous tier (I know, it looks more complex, but it actually isn't. Instead of two slots for several items and tier % on every level, you get visual cues with no % involved, and more control over what you want, but still keeping the RNG)
    • You seem to want Blink Scroll to have limited use, so I can't suggest you give it each round (unless you nerf it). Unfortunately I don't think there are any elegant solutions to this design choice, but let me name a few inelegant ones:
      • Add it seperately in the shop with increasing cost after each purchase
      • Give it every 3 rounds or something
      • Add it as a "board spell" having a cooldown
      • Give one to each player when ANY tower falls (this even creates an "heroic sacrifice" scenario, but players would only get two instead of three)

    ​

    If you want to complicate things, hell, just let us combine items already :P

    Anyway, it's hard to provide feedback of a product you barely know, but I hope you find it useful somehow <3

    PS: no "feedback" flair? :´(

    submitted by /u/Valasty
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    New mechanics mean new design space. I present to you the most predictable card redesign ever.

    Posted: 05 May 2020 05:47 AM PDT

    Let's Shop! | The Long Haul Podcast Ep. 32

    Posted: 05 May 2020 01:21 PM PDT

    All-Hero Challenge Day 16: Mars

    Posted: 05 May 2020 03:43 PM PDT

    A Review in Support of the New Shop Design

    Posted: 05 May 2020 07:22 AM PDT

    So far, I have read more negative feedback than positive regarding the new shop design, so I thought I would add my 2 cents to this discussion.

    TL;DR Item tiers and shop levels are great since they control when cheap and expensive items become available, and they give control over item RNG. Item reroll and gold investment are useful tools. This shop design can work very well if implemented correctly.

    Item Tiers: I like the idea of item tiers with fixed costs. Item tiers can guarantee the availability of cheap items in the early game and expensive items in the late game, giving players access to the items they put in their item deck at the time they want them.

    Shop Levels: this goes hand-in-hand with item tiers, allowing the player to control when higher tier items become available. Having shop levels can slow down money decks from getting too many high tier items too quickly, while still allowing them to get them more quickly than other decks.

    Random Items: The main problems with RNG in item selection in Artifact 1.0 were things like rolling TP scrolls and sometimes Helm of the Dominator or Horn of the Alpha in the secret shop. However, RNG in the shop can be a means of adding fun and excitement to the game, so I support including it. Item tiers and shop levels can provide control over what items can randomly appear and thereby limit the power of RNG items.

    Item Reroll: This is a great way to mitigate item RNG and help players find the items in their deck they want to purchase. Also, if rerolling refreshes a secret shop item if one is purchased, it makes it impossible to buy out the shop and have unused gold. That would be a nice feature.

    Upgrade Costs: Purchasable item shop upgrades allows for deeper money-management strategy. Do you buy a bunch of low-tier items or go for fewer high-tier items. It is also nice for upgrade costs to decrease each round to enable steady item shop progression for decks that struggle to gain gold.

    Gold Investment: Gaining gold when not buying items is a nice little feature. It is great that the amount increases with item shop level so that it scales with item prices. It also gives some motivation to not buy something when you can only afford one item in order to save up to buy a bunch of items at once.

    Other thoughts: If items can be easily obtained and equipped, then players may have incentive to equip lots of lower-tier items in the early game and replace them with higher-tier items in the late game. In Artifact 1.0, an equipped item was rarely replaced with another item. But if the shop and gold system enable purchasing lots items, it allows for a steady progression of improving heroes throughout a game by equipping items and then later replacing them with even better ones. This gives heroes a feeling of greater significance to the game. To this end, having an automatic gold income each round could be a really good feature.

    I think this item shop design has great potential. It has a lot of money options but is not complex once you get the hang of it.

    submitted by /u/Jugglernaut_
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    Giff Arcane Boots for Artifact 2.0༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

    Posted: 05 May 2020 04:46 AM PDT

    New Shop like mini game

    Posted: 05 May 2020 09:36 AM PDT

    I dont think new shop will fit artifact because its like mini game like another game. I dont wanna be have sharp thoughts but my first thoughts not good for new shop. What you guys think about that ? Im really dont know my feelings right now.

    submitted by /u/michaelrose7777
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    Back to Shop Basics - simple and elegant

    Posted: 05 May 2020 04:53 PM PDT

    I'm of opinion that the Shop didn't need big overhaul, but just some tweaks and more gold gain overall. What Valve did was mostly "change for the sake of change", to please redditors that had to find new things to complain about (many didn't know why they didn't like the game and just complained about everything), and many other joined the upboat hate wave because of various reasons.

    Shop RNG needed of course to be reduced, almost everyone agreed. But the way Valve played ultra safe and almost completely removed all RNG is quite a few steps too far. We see this not only with Shop, but throughout moonday blogs, like with creep spawn.

    tldr; Go back to drawing board, maybe better go back to current Shop and start from there. Item cost should be varied again - not only is this more aesthetically pleasing, but makes balancing a lot easier. No item tiers or upgrades, randomize items again, and just have at least one of three always be 10 gold or less (or go back to consumables).

    If we apply similar improvements like Reroll and "Earn +3" to current shop, we would get a much better version of it already, something like this:

    Back to Basics and Elegancy

    • Pay 1 gold to Reveal the secret shop card (can after "Hold" one round for free, then 1 gold). The same card is presented to both players, making it more valuable to reveal the card even when not intending to buy it (unless Held). (Secret Shop would no longer display basic items, and maybe its selection would be even more limited (even with items not possible to include in deck), as well would be another way to balance the game.)

    • Reroll an item deck card once in a round, blacklisting the card on top. Starting at 2 gold, for every card missing from the item deck (after 9 left), the "Reroll" cost is increased by 1 gold.

    • Can remove 1 displayed consumable item from the shop for the rest of the game for 3 gold (once a game). (Can be made slightly pseudo-random too, so you don't get very unlucky streaks.) (And "Flask" would be replaced by another useful consumable, since Salve already has similar function, and Flask could often be too strong. Of course probably other changes too, inline with new gameplay.)

    Item cost would go up about 50%, basic and cheapest cards would cost 5 gold. Items would still cost mana to equip (and this balances cheaper items or "fillers", since you would prefer to spend 1 mana for fewer but more valuable/costly items (as well having a cheaper Reroll option)). "Reveal", "Reroll" and "Remove" wouldn't remove the "Earn +3" option. This option would only be removed if you buy a card. Investing should probably stay at a staitc +3.

    If gold ramp or other outliers is an issue - nerf it, don't change entire Shop because of it. This wasn't a major issue to begin with. And since gold income will be more evened out now for both players (with creeps dying and earn +3), there is even less reason to gatekeep expensive items behind tiers and upgrades (and 25g items would now cost ~35g for example).

    And remember, there is maybe about 50% more rounds in the new game now too, another buff to Shop, or nerf to rng.

    Let's not complicate things needlessly, and keep it as pure and elegant as possible. Shop too should follow "card game" theme, and not deviate into something else.

    submitted by /u/Arachas
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    A shop closer to DOTA's instead of Underlords'?

    Posted: 05 May 2020 03:10 AM PDT

    Would it be more interesting to have a "fixed" store? Dont know how many items would end up being in the beta, lets say 75. I can agree that having to decide between 75 items every round in a supposedly fast-paced card game is not a realistic solution (even though my dota player's ass would love it), but what about getting a random pool of 16-20 items distributed in tiers every game? It would be the same selection of items for both players, so you can think ahead what items your opponent is more likely to get based on his/her heroes and play around that (kinda like dota?), no paying to improve the store and no getting interest, maybe just having a passive income every round with no weird economical decission making.

    First few games can be challenging to recognise all the items and internalize them, but i don't feel like that's a bad thing, it's part of the learning curve.

    Haven't really thought about duplicates, maybe you can buy up to a couple of duplicates from the first two cheap tiers, and then only get one copy of an item from the late tiers?.

    I feel like consumables should also be permanently there, although the effects must probably be toned down so getting consumables isn't just the best strat.

    To add to this, i feel like decks should be item-free. On the one hand, i could see the game replacing some of those ~20 fixed items to accommodate yours to spice things up and have a bit of a surprise factor, but on the other hand i think that it could be better to just have your deck filled with more interesting creatures and spells, and play around the selection of items you and your opponent get every game.

    submitted by /u/Ojete_Moreno
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    What if: Instead of your items appearing to you randomly, they were instead placed on a visible randomized scroll list?

    Posted: 05 May 2020 03:25 PM PDT

    Like, at the top of your store, you would have your scrollbar of items. When you upgraded your shop, the new tiers would be randomly added to this scroll bar.

    Ever round the scroll bar moves to the next 2 items on the list, and, instead of "Reroll" you have the option to pay to shift the scroll bar two slots to the right.

    This way it becomes more tactical when to invest and how to plan ahead your turns to have the gold at the right moment.

    It would also reduce RNG randomly not showing you your items at all when you needed.

    So, what do ya think?

    EDIT: You could even have cards that would reshuffle your opponent's scroll bar! Or make it jump forwards or backwards to mess with their plans!

    submitted by /u/YoMothaFlippin
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    Alternative purchase phase

    Posted: 05 May 2020 01:29 AM PDT

    Hi, r/Artifact, i wanted to show you how I think the shop should be in Artifact 2.0 I'm not native English sorry for my errors.

    Finish the battle phase and start the purchase phase.

    At first we did not find two individual stores, we have a common market. 5 cards. All random (items are not included in the personal deck)

    The player who maintained the initiative can buy a card or pass. Once the action is done it is the other player's turn.

    Every time a card is purchased it is automatically replenished in the market.

    Also each time a player buys a card, he will give the initiative to the other player. The player who maintains the initiative at the end of the phase starts playing in the game phase.

    The phase continues until the two players pass, and we will return to the deployment phase.

    Apart from that the market would be maintained for the following rounds so players can decide if it is important for them to keep the initiative to buy first.

    ​

    Tell me what you think, I think there will be many people who would not agree to remove the object decks. But I think that this system even if it is random is balanced by the initiative system and playing around it. Thanks for reading.

    submitted by /u/Buerdegano
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    "invest" is like passing for initiative when you have cards you can play

    Posted: 05 May 2020 08:35 AM PDT

    I feel like "invest" encourages non-interactive gameplay.

    It's the same thing as in artifact 1, where you were encouraged to pass to keep initiative even if you had cards that were good to play.

    This makes the game less exciting because it leads to non-interactive gameplay. The shop items should be good enough where you want to buy one if you can afford it. If you can't, you can always upgrade your shop. Upgrading is also non interactive, but at least it's a significant boost.

    submitted by /u/Bash717
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    Speculation time! When do you think the first beta keys will drop?

    Posted: 05 May 2020 10:19 AM PDT

    When the first blog post came out this year, I thought beta was to be released soon. However, the recent posts suggest that it will take a long time before even the core game will be in a playable state. Not to mention the big pile of other features they promised.

    What's your best guess? When will the first randomly selected plebs be able to play Artifact 2.0?

    If you answered 'later', when would that be?

    ​

    I would add more options, but apparently 6 options is maximum in Reddit polls.

    View Poll

    submitted by /u/Jajiko
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    A simpler shop suggestion

    Posted: 05 May 2020 01:08 PM PDT

    I tried to brainstorm a less complex version of the new shop, that captures the same spirit without becoming a finance simulator.

    Here is a picture of it.

    The rules are as follows:

    1. The leftmost card is random, the two right cards are from your item deck
    2. The shop have 5 levels, just like the one in the blog post. Each level includes more expensive items than the one before. Level 1 will only display 10g cards. Level 3 displays 10g/15g/20g cards, etc. Level 5 will display cards of all prices.
    3. The shop will only display cards you actually can afford (e.g. if you have 21 gold, the shop will only display cards that cost 20 or less, even if it is upgraded to level 5)
    4. To upgrade the shop to the next level, you need to buy the most expensive card at the current level (e.g. to upgrade from level 2 to level 3, buy a 15 cost card).
    5. There will always be at least one card available with the right cost to upgrade the shop, if you can afford it. Either the random card or a card from your deck. If you have no cards of that cost in your deck, it will always be the random card.
    6. If all cards in your deck are too expensive for you to buy, you will be instead compensated with a free "gift" card that generates gold (the random card will still be displayed as normal). See this picture for an example. This mechanic replaces the "invest" mechanic from the blog post.

    While the rules might sound complex when spelled out in detail, they simply mean that you will always be able to afford something, and that you will gradually update the shop simply by buying items. Most importantly, new players will not need to understand the intricate details of the rules to use the shop and have fun playing, since most of it happens automatically in the background.

    These rules provide a less complex interface (you can see in the picture that only two to buttons remain: "buy" and "reroll"), while still providing ways to invest and upgrade. Getting to the higher cost card will still involve a significant effort, requiring both gold and time. To upgrade the shop enough to buy a 30g card, you first need to buy a 10g, 15g, 20g, and 25g card, for a total of 70 gold.

    This is just a rough idea, and I'm sure there is a lot of flaws or things to improve. I'm looking forward to hearing people's thoughts about it.

    submitted by /u/karma_is_people
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